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Public Pretenders Are Not Like Real Lawyers in MN | Rule 8(b)

I'm not a judge. 

That said and as far as I can see: MN has removed a check and balance from it's legal system. 


Most definitely a route of appeal. 

Most definitely an external review.

Probably a safe guard against corruption in courts 

this change is also most likely to affect low income citizens.

Title is a bit of an exaggeration(public pretenders). They are real lawyers but if you take one you will lose a key protective feature of the justice system.

What Protection is Lost?

it's the right for evaluation of your case by the lawyers Board of professional responsibility. Or rather the performance of your lawyer in your case.

One of the reasons you shouldn't represent yourself is said to be: you eliminate your right to mistrial by incompetent representation/ a shitty lawyer 

Introducing Minnesota lawyers Board of professional responsibility rule 8 (b)

It would seem this no longer applies in Minnesota.

Technically the original judge could decide this. Part of the power of the lawyers board is an independent set of eyes(or multiple) externally review the case to determine if your lawyer preformed adequately. They then have the power to force a retrial if not.

Here's a post that covers the pitfalls of the same court/judge being the only power able to do this.

There are various lawyers and advocacy groups talking about how bad this situation is with civil commitment. If you'd like to read more on that; start here

Worse yet (in my case) various officials (I won't name) knew this attorney by way of other patients having had her. 

Not one had a oz of positivity about her. Aka I wasn't the first to have this issue with that attorney

But I'm more trying to point out this system is broken

It also opens some really terrifying possibilities. I'm not saying that's what happened to me (because this system has me terrified to say even this)

but I'd like to point out that when you're held at a hospital with no directory access, without your phone or access to it, all you really have is what the court appoints to you

This opens some terrifying possibilities for cronyism between the counties the hospitals and or the one law firm(s) the county uses for these cases. If your county is set up like that.

Again I'm not necessarily speaking for my own case.

 I'm  pointing out that there doesn't seem to be any safeguard against this. 

As long as this is how it is and the power remains with the original Court. Ask yourself when this remains true and the only person in the system that can change things is the original judge or the original Court

Who are you going to complain to about it? How likely are they to care if they're the ones that watched it happen?

(A related article and corresponding link to a study about judges who violate their oath and sentencing law)

if the theory of law is people need consequences for negative actions to maintain a sense of justice(and from it order follows); then what happens if we let that become a  hallow label or the delusion?

but then there's also this idea we need to protect vulnerable adults. Problem is that protection often includes taking everything from them or separating them from everything.

There's more on this in the how it feels below..

But I would also argue the difference between recognizing/ protecting vulnerable adults and making them would come down to what's the person given a fair trial with adequate representation and the lawyer that actually advocated for them?

.

How it Feels When Caught In This

I had 2 years of recorded phone calls, conversations, medical records, police reports, video and photos that could have contradicted the claims the CentraCare and court appointed doctors made.

I tried against the restrictions in place by the hospital holding me to get things like a key medical record to the court appointed I was assigned. 

She got it and never submitted it to the court let alone brought it up in court.

I communicated the fact that I had all of this to her. There was maybe 15min of phone time and only once directly before the trial.

I utilized her assistance abilities to leave her messages/pass them when I had ideas or something to communicate.

I put my faith in someone who really wasn't there for me at all. 

None of what could have been furnished as exibits was. We didn't cross examine once.

Her advice was primarly be quiet during the hearings so she can take notes and just get another court appointed examiner. I was asking things like can we argue this or that, just to hear be quiet and get another court appointed. I told her that CentraCare was telling me I needed her to have access to my own records. She promised she would get them and fax them to me. Never did. I went into all of the hearings totally blind.

And even though I had logically concluded most of the issues they would raise.. what I had for evidence /exibits wasn't submitted so it wasn't avalible to bring up.

Its hell to have 6 mo to 2 years spoken for and realize you never really had representation.

I'm also being drugged for this. A medical that has dangerous and potentially permanent side effects.

It messes with blood sugar, it can cause permanent ticks(tardiv dyskinesia), gynecomastia, and doubles your risk of cardiac arrest.

This isn't a joke. This is terror. Once they have you they basicly insist you sit and learn 2 plus 2 is 4 again every day and if being held makes you anxious or depressed  we may keep you longer.

It's my time was being spoken for before with illegal actions by a dad that literally claimed to own me stole felony amounts from me and sat int he parking lot of my apt sometimes calling in welfare checks just to demonstrate he could get what he wanted when he wanted. 

Before that happened I was finishing up a IS degree, designing circuit boards repairing other peoples computers and devices that a board level repair manage even building websites and working other jobs on top of that. I went from working with an SMD rework hot air soldering station to maybe if I  ask for them I can color with crans today. I was doing UV lithography On tools I built to do it. Now I'm actually being evaluated on did I show interest in playing with the crayons? 






How I'd be cooking 


He stays up late .. can he really care for himself?

The most terrifying part is finding out that it's the original judge doesn't want to hear it again there is literally no one you can turn to in Minnesota because of this decision.

It Feels Like A swindle. I could have represented myself better. But with what you think the rights are you think you're losing something for doing that. When no one's holding the lawyers accountable for the public defenders I don't think you really are. What drives them if there's no consequence? How about when there's a contract with the county or with the city in the county that ensures they get so many of these? Is there any incentive to actually do a good job on them that way or are we just rubber stamping people's freedom away? are we creating problems that will then put them back in that system again? This is trauma everyday in here.

If we're not having trials that actually do anything but put doctors with no legal obligation to the truth testifying as expert witnesses but with no obligation to say well I should probably look at that phone call he claims he has or video before I rule something a delusion...

Were destroying credibility in law and the justice system and medicine when we let this happen. We're making it traumatic for the people that it happens to to ever think about going near the medical system again well almost all of this is based on you're going to need it for life if you're in it.

I had contracted work with deadlines. Now I have no idea where the things other people paid for are let alone when I'll be out of here to be able to work on them again.

This destroys my social circle. My support network. Because they were seeking criminal charges well they drag me to the hospital and held me for committing... The police took my phone. I haven't even been able to contact anyone. It took 130 some days to get to the third facility where I'm finally allowed to phone again and I had to buy a new one.I'm still locked out of the account with the bulk of my contacts.
Which should probably raise another question if we're limiting what people can present and basing the standards on the preponderance of the evince

it might not be rigged every time but we certainly set up a system that has no protection for it.And no system for correcting mistakes that makes. Nothing can correct six months to 2 years of your life taken.

In my case it's a little worse than that even.


They also deemed what's likely a fungal infection in my scalp delusional. I have medical records that indicate it was a condition often caused by a fungal infection.

There's several ways I could end up disfigured for life because of this. once you're stuck in this medical system the treatment options you have for physical health are also incredibly limited compared to you know if you are allowed your own things and the freedom that most people enjoy.

No amount of money in a lawsuit I won't be able to afford anyway can give back 2 years of my prime or any lasting damage done to my body.

Only effort to fix the damage to my social circle reputation chances of ever having a middle class income. effort that I largely put in and was taken from me while my life is held on hold.

Yet in the ultimate hypocrisy I have to attend classes that tell me what I already knew about how important it is to have balance in life purpose in life...

This is f****** sickness waterboarding would be preferable.

I don't see how we can do this to people without these checks and balances in place.

we are harming not just harming but terrorizing people when we allow them to have their lives ripped apart for things they could have proved otherwise.

the worst thing is they don't lock in what they're treating you for with the court trial either. There's nothing to stop them from saying things they caused are now reasons to hold you longer.


I didn't hurt anybody or intend to. I haven't assaulted anyone. The two people that claim I was a threat to them neither of them can say the same. Yeah I'm the one on the drugs that now risk my life and quality thereof.

Our system is in a shit state. and it's not the state of Minnesota it's the state of Minnesota's systems

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